Season 1, Episode 3: How Entrepreneurship is a Self-Growth Journey with Diana Davis
Entrepreneurship isn’t just about the business. It’s also about you. Unwittingly, you may have limiting beliefs stopping you from not only becoming a better person, but also building your dream business. The universe will put hurdles and obstacles in your way. If you keep clinging to your limiting beliefs, success will be harder to achieve.
In this episode of The Limitless Podcast, Diana Davis joins us to share the three things every entrepreneur needs to work on to overcome any test from the universe. You can work long hours and establish business strategy after business strategy, but none of that will lead you to success if you don’t overcome your limiting beliefs.
If you want to learn how to find your limitless potential as an entrepreneur, this episode is for you!
Here are three reasons why you should listen to this episode:
Learn the three important lessons every entrepreneur should know.
Find out how you can break free from limiting beliefs, and learn to manage conflicts and establish healthy boundaries.
Discover the importance of support systems and how you can grow even faster with them.
Resources
Want to learn more about grounded manifestation? Head to the Expanded Podcast by Lacy Phillips, who is also the founder of To Be Magnetic.
Break free from Instagram burnout with Jamie’s Social Expansion 6-week group course!
Connect with Diana: Website I Instagram I LinkedIn I Facebook | Email
Connect with Jamie on Instagram, @jamieratermann, and Twitter, @jamieratermann
Connect with Jamie on Linkedin: Jamie Ratermann
Episode Highlights
[04:09] Diana’s Background
Diana is a business coach who loves to help creative entrepreneurs. She may be blunt, but she helps people achieve their best selves without the hustle mentality.
She used to do photography and graphic design, but she is now entirely dedicated to coaching entrepreneurs.
She moved to New York City and worked for the biggest publishing house in the world but eventually got laid off.
She started her own photography business and earned $100,000 within its first year. She was always working and didn’t use pricing to protect herself.
During the pandemic, she hired her first business coach. The sessions then turned into something she offered others herself.
[12:34] How the Universe Will Test You
When we resolve to do something, the universe will often test our resolve and passion.
The test is often about being able to say no or being firm about your position like pricing.
For Diana, her universe tests usually come in the form of toxic and manipulative people. One of her biggest hurdles was avoiding confrontation and being a people-pleaser.
We’ll never be perfect at handling what life gives us, but we can learn to grow and bounce back faster each time.
Entrepreneurship is also a spiritual journey. You will be forced to grow.
Diana: “When the universe is testing you, you're so close to the thing. [The universe] is throwing these curveballs to make sure you're committed.” - Click Here to Tweet This
[19:55] #1: How to Manage Conflicts
People, especially women, are often taught that being a good person means never becoming annoyed with others.
The more we avoid conflicts, the more they will become problems.
At its core, people pleasing is manipulating others to react well to us so we can feel good. It’s not really about other people’s feelings.
When Diana receives negative feedback, she no longer freaks out and tries to give free sessions. Your first reaction may be too much or petty.
Instead, she gets grounded first. She takes the time to talk with others and initiates conversations with her reviewees to investigate how they can feel more supported.
[27:05] Be Grounded in the Present
Be grounded. Understand that you can achieve this in many ways, including going for a workout.
When people aren’t happy with what we do, we can work with them to find out how to serve them better.
Success will look different at different points on our journey.
We can’t always bring up past tensions and experiences.
[28:57] #2: How to Create Healthy Boundaries
Diana helps entrepreneurs establish a schedule for their dream lives, starting with boundaries.
She uses the analogy of the pine cone and rice: if you place the rice inside a jar first, the pine cone won’t be able to fit. But if you place the pine cone first, the rice can easily wrap around it.
We need to know what we absolutely want and need in our lives, then schedule work around it.
Establishing your non-negotiables will help you become a better entrepreneur. Listen to the full episode for Diana’s examples of non-negotiables!
[33:47] The Toxic Mentality of Hustle Culture
Many people neglect their health because they don’t think it will help their business. In truth, this will be more harmful.
We have been conditioned to think that productivity means being able to add more work.
We need to allow ourselves to work on the three core things that need to be done daily and give ourselves time to rest and enjoy life.
We used to trade items for other items. Eventually, money was exchanged for work hours instead of the work’s actual worth.
We need to unlearn hustle culture.
[40:58] How to Change our Mindsets and Beliefs
Your hustle needs to be focused on things that are important and what you want to spend time on.
People even feel guilty and undeserving of traveling and resting.
We need to dig into our limiting beliefs and understand where they are coming from.
Approach your limiting beliefs with curiosity.
Diana: “We could do strategy all fucking day. And if the energy isn't right, if your body's not right, if you're burnt out, hating every minute of it, it's not gonna work.” - Click Here to Tweet This
[45:55] #3: Why Support Systems are Important
Entrepreneurship isn’t taking on everything alone. We need support systems to help us gain better perspectives.
Jamie shares she used to price very low until she met Diana who pointed out she needed to charge at least three times more.
Entrepreneurs are often so involved in the business that they cannot see the bigger picture. You will need a different perspective looking in.
Coaches can help people avoid hurdles they have experienced before. This can help entrepreneurs grow even faster compared to when they work on their businesses alone.
You know you’ve found your accountability buddy if they celebrate with you but also stay with you through difficult times.
Diana: “[When] we become an entrepreneur, we think we have to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and wear the badge of ‘hey, I did this by myself. I grew organically by myself with no team, I'm a one-woman show.’ And it's like, cool. Imagine what you could do with more people, more of a team, more of, you know, business coach, accountability, people, all of that.” - Click Here to Tweet This
[55:23] What is Limitless for Diana?
For Diana, being limitless is being fully ourselves and not hiding any part of us.
When she shows up fully without barriers, she knows that limitless potential can meet her there.
About Diana
Diana Davis is a business coach that empowers creative entrepreneurs to ditch the hustle, land their dream clients, and scale to new heights. Formally a photographer and graphic designer in NYC, she's out to debunk the idea of the "starving artist" and the idea that you have to have a traditional job to make the money you want and have the life you desire. She is currently based in Denver, but NYC where she built her entrepreneurship career, will always be her city. If you really know her, you know she’s a good mix of woo woo and realistic, is a Gemini to the max, and loves traveling any chance she gets.
Before her business coach success, Diana used to work for big-name publishing houses like The Foundry at Time Inc. and Hearst Digital Media.
Want to learn more about Diana’s work? Check out her Website.
You can also connect with her on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook.
Enjoyed this Podcast on Creating Limitless Belief in Ourselves?
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and help us spread the word by sharing it!
Leave a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in to this podcast, we'd appreciate it if you wrote us a review. You can also share it to help other entrepreneurs break free from limiting beliefs and grow from them.
Have any questions or want to leave a suggestion? Don’t hesitate to send me a DM on Instagram or contact me on my website.
Also, you can connect with me on Twitter, @jamieratermann, and Linkedin: Jamie Ratermann.
Thanks for listening! Stay tuned on my website for more episode updates and other exciting programs and resources.
Transcript
My certification is life itself and going through the mud and the muck, and learning how to do it the right way and being really freaking passionate about teaching other creatives and leading other creative entrepreneurs through that journey. Hopefully, with less potholes in the road.
Jamie Ratermann: You're listening to The Limitless Podcast, where we dig into all the possibilities that exist when you lean into the big vision for your life and your business. Hi, my name is Jamie Ratermann, and I am a holistic business coach. Meaning, I am just as invested in growing your health as I am in growing your wealth. With 11 plus years in brand and social media marketing, I help rebellious entrepreneurs in master marketing and body leadership and say, “Fuck it” to the hustle. This show is here to encourage you to become radically aware of your self-imposed limits, to break free of your shoulds, and to expand your brand into a movement — led by you. The way I see it, marketing is a way of spreading your mission. Social media is a gift for connection, and sales are where you build your strongest relationships. Let's dig in.
Hello all! Welcome to episode three of The Limitless Podcast. Today, you get to have a special invite into a conversation between me and one of my closest friends and business partner, Diana Davis. We dive into so many things, but today, our first conversation, our first interview on The Limitless Podcast, we went ahead and talked about what it really means to be an entrepreneur; what our paths were, how we were able to get there, within that to how we were able to start to debunk the hustle. Because it's true; it is BS and it's but it's both of our missions to be able to help people debunk that. Then of course, why support systems are essential when you're starting a new business. So that you know that you can get some really amazing feedback when you allow it to be outside of yourself.
This podcast is potent, it's beautiful, and I was so excited to be able to allow you to be a fly on the wall, on the conversations I have with Diana on a regular basis. If you really love this conversation — if you really are interested in everything that we're sharing and want more of it, I want to invite you to share a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to let me know what you've been thinking about Limitless so far. I plan to absolutely bring new guests in here, but tell me what you want more. Tell me what kind of topics you're looking to and then also how's it been feeling for you. It would be such a pleasure for me to know that I get to hear from you and connect with you. So, take this moment after the podcast and tell me what your takeaway was in a review. I would invite you to jump on in. Let's dive into the podcast.
Hi! Welcome all of you. I am so excited. This is episode three and it is a very special episode. This is my first interview episode on The Limitless Podcast and guess what? You get to be introduced to someone who is so special to me. Diana Davis is joining us today. Diana is pretty much my business partner. We've been together for three years. Sounds like we're in a relationship, we’re a couple. But we've been together as accountability buddies and then of course, within that since we got to know each other so well, have been also really close friends. But, she is somebody I look to as an expander. She's also someone who gives it to me straight. She's also somebody who, in general, allows me to see how big and limitless I can be, and I get to do that for her as well. So I'm really excited to have her here.
We're going to just chat. You guys get to be in on what a conversation feels like when the two of us talk. That's the goal today. Let me tell you a little bit about Diana. Diana is a business coach who loves to help creative entrepreneurs. She wants to expunge the idea of the starving artist, which is something I love about her. Her energy, if I had to describe it as blunt, a little woowoo. But really being able to see the best of you and then working through ways to get you there. So I want to officially introduce my first guest on the Limitless podcast, Diana. Hi, thank you so much for joining me today.
Diana Davis: Hi, I am beyond excited to be here. Holy shit.
Jamie: It's real. I clearly introduced you but I know that you can do it even better. Go ahead and tell my listeners about what you do and you are.
Diana: Hi, Limitless listeners. I am so honored to be here. This is going to be so much fucking fun. Okay, I am Diana of Diana Davis Creative. I am a photographer and graphic designer turned business coach. So, my certification is life itself and going through the mud and the muck and learning how to do it the right way and being really freaking passionate about teaching other creatives and leading other creative entrepreneurs through that journey. Hopefully, with less potholes in the road. Oh, yes and I cuss a lot, cool.
I am from Colorado. I grew up on a ranch in the middle of nowhere. I met Jamie when I was living in New York City for my five-year stint there. Something about those opposing energies, New York City to a town of 500 people. Yes, it was a little different. New York City is like my soul city. So, Jamie and I have that in common. What else? I am an extreme Gemini with a Sagittarius moon. I love travel. I love adventure. I love trying all the things. Yes, I think that's a pretty good start, but I'm sure we'll learn a lot more today.
Jamie: Totally, totally. There's so many things there. So one thing and I shared this a little bit on my first episode that I grew up in a small town. When I shared it, I was like, “No one's ever gonna beat me.” I grew up in a town of, I believe 1500, if I looked at the last population, and then I was like, my graduating class was 56 and then I like — Diana, you're never — my town has to be smaller. She goes “Really? Try me, try me.” So, that was one thing I was like, “Well, I finally met somebody who has had that small town experience”, which was lovely.
Diana: I don't know if I call it lovely, but sure.
Jamie: There's aspects of it, just like city life has some positive and negatives. But by all means, it's so lovely to have you. Even too, we are both Geminis.
Diana: Which means that the conversation is about to be lit — all over the place and very lit on fire.
Jamie: Oh my gosh. So, you were sharing about how you're a photographer and graphic designer. I would love just to launch into this because we both love to help entrepreneurs. But I would love to just hear, why do you want to help entrepreneurs? Why did you choose entrepreneurship?
Diana: Yes, wow. I think entrepreneurship really chose me. I want to be clear so that I don't get a bunch of inquiries for photography — I do not do photography and graphic design anymore. I've totally pivoted to coaching, which is also a whole conversation around pivoting and what that can look like. But basically my long, long story, very short. Like I said, grew up in Colorado, went to school in Montana for photo and design, ended up moving to New York City without a job or a plan, networked my way through LinkedIn, — hey, shout out to your social expansion — network my way through LinkedIn to get a job at the biggest publishing house in the world, Time Inc., which does Time Magazine real simple, all of those.
Spent a few years there ended up getting poached over to Hearst, which is Harper's Bazaar, Esquire, Cosmopolitan, Seventeen mag, and then I got laid off. So, that's when entrepreneurship, I guess, kind of invited me, opened the door. I have to give myself a little more credit, and I think we need to do this for ourselves as well. I chose it. I could have searched for another job, but I really decided to go head first all in 100%. That's what really did it for me, I think, was choosing it with both feet, heart, and soul versus just kind of dabbling and seeing how things went.
I really committed, but it was not easy. I built a six-figure photography business within my first year, which was baffling to me because I came from like, no money and 100k sounded like the craziest number. Not even like, I wasn't worthy of it or undeserving, I just was like, “That's what rich people make.” 100k? Like, out in Montana, where we make like 30k and it's not that big of a deal. It sounds really low for New York City; you wouldn't even be able to survive on that. I was doing it. I was busy and every time I'd see Jamie or meet anyone in person. They'd be like, “Wow, you're so busy.” I was like, “I don't think that's a good thing.” I think busy — I think that's stressful. I think that's actually a really bad thing. I don't want to portray myself as that.
I was. I was hustling my freaking butt off. There were times when I was doing 11 shoots a week. I'd finally take a trip to go see my parents in Montana, which they moved from Colorado, Montana — not to be confusing. I would be editing photo galleries in the shotgun seat of my dad's pickup. I was never not working. I had absolutely no boundaries, I was not charging enough. I didn't use my pricing to protect my energy and my work. I was working with some really toxic people, like really toxic people. This is all their conversation, too. But I know Jamie and I have talked a lot about universe tests, right? These toxic people were universe tests. It would be like one person, Diana, can you pass this test? Nope. Okay, we're going to put another person in your life and see if we can finally get over this hurdle.
So during the pandemic, I hired my first business coach. I had no idea I was going to become a coach, and just kind of started thinking of other terms of revenue. Maybe mentorship chat sessions would work and that could be a thing. Then it just turned into something I was offering and putting out into the world that people were really excited about because I was already talking about my entrepreneurship journey on Instagram and that kind of thing. Then I became a coach. But the reason why — long-winded answer to answer your question is because I want people to have it easier than I had it. I want to help them navigate those things like pricing, and the hustle mentality, knowing that they can actually have a really amazing, spacious life. They don't have to be a doctor or a lawyer or in finance to make money and I really want those people to thrive because we fucking need your gifts.
Like that's what it comes down to; we need these creatives’ gifts. When I say creatives, to be clear, I don't just mean like a painter, which that counts too, but I mean, coaches and yoga instructors, and even real estate agents — the people who have a heart-centered gift and want to put it out into the world and it's not just transactional. So, that's why I do what I do.
Jamie: Wonderful answer. I go like snap on a microphone here. But I think there's a couple of things you mentioned in there, and I think it's worthy of talking about. I think it plays into just our relationship too — is that work and what you do for a living can absolutely be affected by the people you're surrounded by. I think, whenever, for anyone who doesn't live in New York, or for anyone who's considering it is — I think when I moved to New York, I thought, “Oh my gosh, these big brand names, they've got they must have the most amazing environments, because if they make it in New York, they have to be perfect inside.” In all honesty, they’re of course, are wonderful people to work for. There's also the people that you feel competitive with — the people who sit next to you, feel unheard unseen, different pieces of that.
In my mind, this is just a declaration, the more entrepreneurship becomes, like empowering and beautiful, I think that we can change corporate culture because I think we feel more seen as entrepreneurs and valued because we get to do it from inside ourselves. But a part of that, and I wrote it down going universe tests. Let's talk about it. So you were just sharing about universe tests. Usually, when I have a client who will be talking about making a really big leap — let's say that they've decided that they want to do their business full time instead of getting rid of any freelance contracts they have. They usually have one of the biggest inquiries for another freelance contract right before they do it.
In that way, the universe is going, “Are you sure? Are you sure you want to go full time business? Are you sure you want to do that?” So, in general, there's a way in which somebody won't take that as a, “Why are you doing this to me right now?” Another one going like, “Oh, this is this is checking how strongly I feel; how passionate I am about this.” So when do you think the universe has tested you whenever you have made these transitions? Because I can hear all the pivots that have happened for you.
Diana: Yeah, I was trying to find a quote from that To Be Magnetic Podcast that we were sharing back and forth the other day, which — y'all, if you get nothing else out of this, get yourself an accountability buddy, and a friend who gets it. We share a lot of stuff back and forth. But Lacy Phillips, I believe is the founder of that podcast, and a whole workshop like she's doing amazing.
Diana: It reminded me of that because the universe test thing is like, it means you're close. When the universe is testing you, it's like, you're so close to the thing. It's kind of throwing these curveballs to make sure you're committed. She talks about, if you're manifesting something, say for example, this dream client that's pretty specific, like a certain budget, a certain industry a certain vibe. But maybe someone comes along, and they fit two of the things, but they don't have the budget for you. I think that's a universal test to be like, “No, I'm actually not — that's not what I'm attracting. That's not what I'm available for.” and the test is to say no to that thing, or to state your price and hold to it; versus like, “Well, this is like close to what I wanted.” Right? So, that could be a universe test.
For me, it's like, has been many, many, many people in my life, coming in different forms, who are really manipulative, very controlling, really toxic, a little verbally abusive. It's like, are you going to let yourself be steamrolled? Are you going to put yourself in this situation and let it happen? Because one of my big hurdles and trip-ups is, or was — I really can say I'm kind of past that now, Limitless, but is avoiding confrontation. That was a huge one for me — holy shit. With clients, with my boss, with my ex, with my roommate, like, “Oh, my God walking on eggshells”, like, queen recovering people pleaser, right here.
So yeah, that was a big universe test for me, and they still come in time to time. It's kind of like, you and I do Duolingo, if anyone does Duolingo, let us know. Become our friends, you'll see that — we can cheer you on when we when you get a new crown. But there's like you've mastered this skill, right? It's like the full circle. If you do it, you know what I mean? But then eventually, they're like, they break it, and you have to go remaster it to make sure you're still good at those Spanish words. I feel like, that's what the universe does, too. It's like, “Oh, let's just throw her one of these from a while ago, and make sure she still can pass the test.”
Jamie: That is such a good way to say it. It plays into this idea that sometimes people assume that we're all like, we've got all of our shit together — that idea. Like,”Oh, I'm going to be talking about money mindset. If I'm going to be talking about selling confidence, different things like that, that I have no problems with it. I'm bulletproof.” When in reality, as you grow, you still get those same things that like needle at you. It's just how you handle them. So exactly with what you're saying with the crown on Duolingo. Again, just putting it out there. If you want to learn another language come in, I'm happy to celebrate you. But the idea that like we — really changing that mindset a little bit too, going like, we get to continue to grow. We're never going to be perfectly able to handle what life throws at us, but we may be able to bounce back faster by the way in which we know when those things will come at us for sure.
Diana: Yes, I love that. Entrepreneurship is a spiritual journey, y'all. Like, man, it's gonna bring up some stuff. But we get to — I think that was the keyword. You said like, we get to grow, and I love that reframe. Like, you don't have to, you can go like, be a couch potato and play video games for the rest of your life. You get to choose. Entrepreneurship is the ultimate, “I am choosing to grow and go through and go on this journey.” Because it's not easy. You're not choosing the easy path y'all; you're choosing one that's gonna be a wild ride.
Jamie: Totally. I was really keeping track of this. The people pleasing side and I — there's a whole bunch of ideas behind us, especially as women to talk about people-pleasing and what the way we show up and how humility is something that we're supposed to hold to our highest and according to society, and what that can look like, and avoiding conflict, all of the above. That's exactly this. We're talking about, if we are good people, we never get down about these things. If we're good people, we don't get annoyed with a client, or with competition, or with friends, or with whatever it might be.
Really, the more we try to avoid that conflict, the harder it becomes. It’s like. idea of like a festering wound. You can people please all you want, you still got to apply ointment to that damn wound. Yes, what do you think whenever you have conflict come up for you now, knowing that you're working — and for the record, as I say this, I have people I actually have people-pleasing tendencies, so there's a side of this; I see myself perfectly in this. But whenever, what do you walk through? What would be a good example here? When somebody was unhappy with a coaching session, how do you feel like you walk through feeling that conflict come towards you?
Diana: Oh, I would love to say, I walk through it with complete grace and confidence, and like a fucking queen. But that's not the truth at all. I think I really love — one of my clients said this in one of my camp clarity group courses — people-pleasing is manipulative. I love that because talk about my superpower as being tough love blunt. That just puts it right back in our face going, “This isn't to make people happy. It's actually a really negative thing.” It like defines it instead of like, “But people-pleasing. I just want everyone to be happy. What's wrong with that?” It's like, let's just put a biggle like dunce crown on this and put it in the corner — it is not a good thing.
Why it is manipulative is because when we want people to feel good about us, we want them to feel good about us. It has nothing to do with wanting them to feel good. We want them — I want to please you, Jamie, so that you have a good reaction towards me, and I can feel good. So, it's actually manipulating the person to try to make us feel better. How do I walk through that? It's fucking messy, almost every time. It's like, “Oh, there's 22-year old Diana showing up and your limiting beliefs and your worry about people loving you. Your worry about abandonment, wherever that frickin came from”, all this stuff bubbles up. I think the difference is from now, if a client comes to me and is saying, “I didn't feel supported this week”, and you're like, “Oh, my God, I have to do something about that.” “Here's a free session. Why don't I just give you your money back?” Freaking out instead of doing that, we can go “Hmm, let's get curious here.”
Stuffs bubbling up for me. Mm hmm, this is interesting. These are some insecurities that I have, obviously. Hey, I have a coach and a friend and five other friends that I can talk this through with; they can be a mirror for me. I have these tools. I have meditation, I have all these — even a workout to get out the endorphins and take a minute, take a beat to really think about it. Then approach it with grace, and approach it with agency for yourself, taking responsibility of what you need to take responsibility for, but also allowing that person to take back their power as well. Instead of freaking out and giving them a free session or, “Here's your money back. Oh my god.” It's more like, “What made you feel not supported?” Or, “How could you have felt more supported?” Really anchoring into your core and your person knowing that you're good here, and you can invite a conversation around it. It doesn't have to be confrontation; it can just be a conversation.
Jamie: Oh my gosh. Peach. Preach! Getting grounded in the things that bring you back to your power is what I heard in there. Also to this idea that not reacting. In all honesty, especially if it's like a core belief or something that we've been working through hard like your first reaction is probably going to feel hard and petty and maybe all the things versus going, “Okay, I'm allowed to at least take 10 minutes.” If I get an email that feels aggressive or a certain way to me I'll read it and be, “Oh my gosh”, and then I walk away. At least give it 10 minutes before I do it, but exactly what you're saying. I think that's a large part of why I don't understand how people coach without talking about health, without talking about knowing your body and knowing those things.
Because the way in which you lead yourself through these pieces has to do with a deep inner knowing of your body, what works for you. Sometimes a run is going to be the best way when a problem feels insurmountable. I always get a good old laugh. When I'm like, “This is so hard. I can't believe I can’t handle this.” Let's go for a run or let's get a like a longer workout and I'm going to leave the gym going. That doesn't that feels like half the smallest problem right now. Because it's a play on our nervous system. Just as much as we love pleasure, our brain likes to get the equilibrium and give us a little bit of pain. How can we work with it to bring us bring ourselves back? But I love that share of you get grounded first.
Yeah, you also lean into the fact that, at least in our industry, coaching is a co-created experience. So, if someone's not happy with something, it's like how can we work together to make this proper? Because I do feel that we're the right fit for each other? It's just a matter of relationship because we get to be in full relationship with our clients. I love that.
Diana: Yeah, yeah. I love what you said around we love to create friction, basically. I think there's a huge topic and conversation to be had around the fear of success, and talking about it like limitless, right? Like, we don't actually know what that success looks like because we haven't been there yet. Right? Like whatever level we're at which — I hate the term levels — wherever we are on our journey. We haven't been we're not gonna loop. We're on a winding path, so we haven't been over there yet at mile marker 33 if we're at mile marker 32. We tend to bring up these really friction moments, high friction moments, so that we can feel more of what we've just felt in the past because that's actually more comfortable than the unknown. That's where a lot of people sabotage themselves because we don't know what success looks like. So, oh my god, how could we go there?
Jamie: Absolutely, absolutely. Being open to the fact that whatever new success comes your way, it's going to look different. Are you ready for that adventure and that twists and turns? Instead of like, feeling, “Oh, I just got to go back to how it's all worked before.” I love that, I love that. We could keep going on fear of success. I feel like there's episodes on episodes. You'll be here —
Diana: She returns again, and again, and again.
Jamie: The one other thing I was going to talk about too is that you were talking about busy. I agree. This is kind of getting into the hustle side of what people believe entrepreneurship is, and I have decided to stop using the word busy. That's a goal of mine. Being able to say my day is full. Meaning, full of the things that I wanted my database full of. Because busy just feels like I'm trying to create what like what it looks like to be successful when in reality like I'm not taking care, I'm not handling things, so like really diving into your view of the hustle and how you work through it. Then, also kind of how now you prevent yourself from getting into that busy mode or even catch yourself if you actually do get into it again.
Diana: Yeah, I call this ‘scheduling our dream life,’ which I coach a lot to teach a lot on. It's so funny because I run a group course called Camp — I can't even say everyone there's like a trip up with the words clamp, clarity, camp — Camp Clarity. I run a group course for creative entrepreneurs kind of the foundations. If you need to shake your ship back down to the foundations, that can work too. We start with boundaries, which plays into the hustle, right? I think people are like, “Oh my God,, what about social media just tell me how to land a client on social media and tell me how to price myself and this is what I'm here for.” It's like, “Nope, we're gonna start with boundaries, y'all. Because this is the most important.”
Because we can be busy — actually busy making a shit ton of money, having the biggest frickin name clients in the world and be burning the fuck out. That's not good for anyone. I've been there, and so have you. For me, it's boundaries of — I use this analogy of a lot: the pine cone and the rice. Maybe you did this little science experiment, if you will, in school, where it's like, you have a jar, and if you have a jar of rice, and then try to put a pine cone in it, it will never go in that jar with the rice. But if you put the pine cone in first, the rice will filter in around it and it will fit together. I think overarching theme is putting the things that you need in life — friends, time, workouts, meditation, travel, the things that you need to live a life you love.
Jamie: Eating lunch.
Diana: Eating lunch. Exactly! I have eating lunch on my calendar and five years into entrepreneurship, had to put that on just a few weeks ago, because I realized, this shit is not happening. I am not functioning as a like human being. I'm not eating, so I put a calendar block. That was my pine cone. Nothing interferes with the lunch hour; the rice goes around the lunch hour. Those types of things, I think. That's just a really simple way. Instead of getting up and whiplashing yourself into work and just being like, “But I have the things that I have to do to make it work.” It's like, no, actually those non-negotiables like date night or friend night or your workout or eating lunch — that actually helps you become a better business person because you actually have energy to pour into the things that you need to do.
Jamie: Totally. It’s so funny. I love that you have the pine cone the rice. If anyone needs to search, there's a rock and pebble analogy on YouTube. I think people use it. I've used oranges, lemons, and pistachios, being able to go, if you have the core things and then you have your business things and then everything else gets to fall in between because that the idea and what she's sharing is that you think you can't fill your time with everything. But, if you put it like so — if we're sticking with the rice metaphor, so if you have a jar and the rice is your business or all the things in the tasks that have to happen with your business, if you put those pieces in first and then go, “Okay, can I fit the pine cones?” and the pine cones are going to kind of overflow and not be able to stay in the jar. But if the pine cones get to be added first, the rice can get in there because it's gonna find its way in between all of those are really important tasks that nourish you — exactly what she's sharing with it when it comes to boundaries.
The idea that — and it's gotten so apparent to me that I just find it to be so second nature, but it's not for everybody — is that why wouldn't you think taking care of your mind and body is going to be helpful in your business? What if I tell someone to take like a walk, “But that's not that's not conducive to my business.” That's like, “Why would I do that?” They're ready to give me excuses, and I go, “Why wouldn't you think your eyes getting a break from your screen — why wouldn't literally getting your blood flowing more through your body is going to be helpful.” So I love that you shared the pine cone rice analogy too.
Diana: I think a lot of people don't believe they're worthy. I think that's a big one.
Jamie: Totally. That even plays into like hustle as a badge of honor, as a form of accomplishment. There's something to be said here, is that we have been conditioned in the way in which we've — in school and in like the way we perceive like workplace that the more productive you are — literally checking any single topic task off your list doesn't mean it. Really important task, but literally getting all the things done is somehow a reason to say that you're accomplished, you're successful, versus being able to say, “I got the three core things I need to get done today.” and they don't have to always be A-plus work. Being able to allow yourself the time to walk away, do what you need, so that whatever are the most needle-moving — I like to call them money-making tasks — like moving that needle is all that needs to happen. But it's hard to get rid of that hustle as a badge of honor. Because —
Diana: It’s a society thing.
Jamie: I was an A+ student. I was in extracurriculars, and I was — I absolutely pulled all-nighters in college. I was like, “Look at me go! I got it.” Then I would — whenever I did an all-nighter, my comments, were always in a classroom. I'm like, “My organs feel heavy.” I'm sure there's a legitimate goal to that. But I did have one magazine journalism teacher, that would always be like, “Did you do an all-nighter last night? She could just see it. I'm like, wow. She can tell that my mind is not fully there. There's that breaking the A+ student — what do you want to call it? Syndrome mentality is something that constantly comes up with people.
Diana: I have an actual question. Back to the small town thing — we're diverging for two seconds. I had a class size of 22. I was the saluted Torian but like, is it actually an accomplishment to be the salutatorian of a class size of 22? Just asking for the group.
Jamie: We had five valedictorians and one salutatorian. I was .101 behind the salutatory, who was my cousin.
Diana: Anyway, I digress.
Jamie: Gotta shout out to the very smart people from my class. I remember being harmed and hurt when I met somebody from like a bigger city, and they're like, “Of course you were. That wasn't that hard.” They were talking like prorated GPA. I’m like, “What's that?”
Diana: AP classes, they offer those? Not in the boondocks.
Jamie: I think that the A-plus mentality is something that turns into proving energy for any of your business or any of your offers, like you're selling something, but also to the feeling of, and I would — I'm using this term in a way that I see it, but there's different ways of saying it — depressed at the end of the week if you didn't get through 50 to 100 tasks. It's like, we will always be able to add to the to-do list. But, being able to really lean into, “Did I take care of myself and get through the important things?” That's the goal.
Diana: I think there's this huge conversation around trading time for money. That's part of the big hustle. Okay, I'm doing a shoot. For example, a photoshoot of 100 bucks for an hour. But really, that's also taking you five hours, because you're editing and the travel time and all of that, and you're trading time for money. Then, once we start to make these quantum leaps, which you and I see in our industry all the time, especially when it becomes one to many, And I want to say that's not just for coaching group programs, where we get to trade one hour of our time to go to 18 people or whatever that looks like.
But that can also look like — I had a have a lot of different types of artists in my containers and ceramicists come in quite often. It's like, what could one too many look like for that person? You could have these beautiful ceramic pieces and rent it out to wedding planners to use over and over and over again. It's not just like, “I'm making a plate, and please pay me $45 for my time.”
I think that's a huge one. I was actually listening because of you to Armchair Expert the other day with Dr. Shepard. He was talking about this book he was reading on kind of the history of America and kind of the economics behind it. Basically, this idea that we used to just trade a thing for a thing. Say, you need your field plowed and you will give me apples off your apple tree in exchange. Then we started — I think it was kind of government policy kind of stuff. But it started to be hourly work instead. People would actually start working more hours, because they wanted to earn more money instead of just going, “Hey here's an hour of my coaching time. It's not going to be an hourly rate; this is what it's worth, versus just my time, it's my experience and your ROI and all of these things.” So, we got into somewhere, way back in the day, like the 1600s of this hourly work.
But then now, we have this like shift work kind of society. We have to unlearn so much of that, like talking about unlearning, people-pleasing, being a woman, the way we show up, hourly work, the hustle, being in New York City, and the hustle culture that is there. I think there's so much to unpack there, for sure.
Jamie: Totally, we could I think, I think a big part of that is — and now talking about worthiness and different aspects of it is, especially when it's a trade of time for money is going like, “How meaningful was that time? How did you feel? How was your energy during that time?” I think with the hustle, like my version of the hustle was, I had six clients that I created multi-channel content for at one point, and then even two. When I was in corporate, I would easily hit 80 hours a week, and cry about it for the rest. Being like, “Let me show that I'm worth it. I'll put in the extra hours.” That was a badge for me going like, “Look at that. Look at how great this is.”
I even have this with — when I talked to just straight-up content creators who are posting lots of times every day, and they're just burnt out. I go, “You might be making — there's like with Instagram and different aspects that give creator bonuses — you might be making, like $10,000, from Instagram for doing that right now, but how many hours did you do? Did you make minimum wage because of how many hours you put in to create, to consistently create those pieces? I think there's an inherent worthiness of our talents. The way in which you move to the pricing, the way you move there, how much time you spend on it, is an internal process. It's working through those pieces to get there. I think the way in which — at least when you and I talk about hustle, it's — are you hustling on something that, one: moves the needle for you, and also, two: is the time you spend something that you want to continue doing?
Because as soon as you have a successful month and you took a vacation; as soon as you have a successful month, and you took Friday's off or half of a Friday off, you're creating new evidence that hustle is bullshit. It is absolute bullshit. Where we spend our attention, and we spend our energy, that is going to make us money, period. But, that privilege comes through entrepreneurship because I think there's still a lot of that to be said about how that translates to the corporate world.
Diana: I think what I hear a lot from people is the guilt, even really good friends who are traveling the world now things are opening up. They're like, “I just had my biggest month ever, and I feel so guilty that I'm not working hard enough for it.” I think it's just about for everyone, like digging into your limiting beliefs and where those come from and just like we talked about approaching the client in different ways than we would five years ago. We approach it with curiosity, and I think that's a big growth point, right?
Once you are able to start approaching these things with curiosity like, “Wow, I'm having guilt about making money even when I'm not putting in the time.” It's interesting. Instead of, “Oh my god, I can't believe I feel this way. I'm just gonna go back to the hustle and whatever.” Just getting curious, like getting outside yourself for a second, and realizing, what's the story and where does that come from? — That's the work. That's why I love that you're a holistic business coach because you're right. We could do strategy all fucking day. If the energy isn't right, if your body's not right, if you're burnt out, hating every minute of it, it's not gonna work.
Jamie: Totally. The analogy I've been using lately around strategy versus energy is like, let's say you make the best cinnamon buns. Strategically you know how to bake them, you know how many ingredients need to go into them. They're frickin beautiful, but your storefront is dark, your cashiers a little angry all the time. When someone walks in, they just feel but doom and gloom, even though the product is fantastic. The way in which you're putting out that — the energy is that, “Those probably are crappy cinnamon buns.” Those aren't that great even though you've perfected them. Strategy is always great. It's always going to be helpful. It's always going to create success. If it's without energy, it's without the mindset side of things.
Diana: Yeah, the whole like, “I made these with love, and you can truly taste it.” That's what it reminds me of.
Jamie: Yeah, “I made these with love.” or “I'm freaking fantastic at these. Why don't you buy them? Come on, come here!” It’s two different energies. I keep keeping track of time here, but I think I would love to talk about—
Diana: We could talk for days.
Jamie: True. We put an hour of accountability time, and it has trickled into two that when we have—
Diana: We sometimes have three.
Jamie: I think it's been there, it's been there. But a part of a lot of this is being able to have a support system. While we're sharing all of the pieces and even to time management will never not be a problem. There's a reason why there's articles and articles and articles online of how to manage your time because we will always have to work through it, especially when we have more things coming at us as our tech world adapts to us. Either way, within that though, support systems are huge.
For my own journey, I always thought I could just figure it out, learn it, do it. If something went wrong, it was my fault. I was able to — I'll read something, try something until I get it right because I don't want to show somebody else that I'm struggling or what that might look like. That's been apparent throughout my life, and being able to honor what we do now — coaching, but also to this idea of, “When I become an entrepreneur, I'm by myself.” That belief, that thought process is just wrong. Knowing our relationship — Diane and I met at Financial Gym. Shoutout to Financial Gym.
At the time, I shared my prices with her because we just met and we were chatting. She goes, “What?” She was immediately like, “Could you…No.”
Diana: I had no filter. There's no filter.
Jamie: Reason number 5,000 why I love Diana — she's blunt. I think I'm blunt, but Diana even allows me to be more blunt in my life. Anyway, but part of that was that, I had not had a money conversation that wasn't like selling to somebody. I was just like sharing numbers with you, and you're like, “You are worth three times.” I don't know. I don't even remember the number I gave you because it feels so long ago. Do something. Just a quick thing. A side note here, if you can find an old paycheck after you've like really adjusted and changed your pricing and what that looks like, you’ll be like, “Wow. I used to accept that? I used to accept that.”
Diana: She was like $250 or something, you were charging. I have no idea, but it was very low for what it was. Yeah.
Jamie: [incorrigible] for sure. But that was like my first — well, one of my first way of going like, “Wow, if I'm only judging myself or the only feedback I'm getting in my own business is myself, that's not very helpful.” The big overarching theme is, why do you think a support system is essential?
Diana: Oh my god. How is it — why is it not essential? Um, I waited a really long time too. I was three years into entrepreneurship and truly hired my first person out of actual desperation. I was at my lowest low mentally, lowest low financially, month-wise, like business coming in, all of the above. I was just like, “Man, this is gonna go on a 0% APR credit card. We're just gonna freakin do this because it's time.” Kind of like, the universe pushes me off a lot of cliffs.
I think I have to be pushed. But yes, I think it's the same reason that you just said — we in the corporate world in any sort of situation, we have a team of some sort. We have some sort of a boss, someone to report to teammates, co-workers to riff things off of, get feedback, have a collaborative space, and then all of a sudden we become an entrepreneur and we think we have to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, and wear the badge of, “Hey, I did this by myself. I sell by my aid. I grew organically by myself with no team, I'm a one-woman show.” It's like, cool. Imagine what you could do with more people, more of a team, more of a business coach, accountability, people all of that. Just that analogy alone, I think says a lot. But also, in general, just having someone to be the third party looking down on your situation.
Because if you could see me right now holding my finger right on the bridge of my nose, you're this close to your business. You need someone on the other side, seeing the big picture, because we're so in it, and we're so personally tied to it. Maybe that person is a direct expander for you, and she has literally driven the road to Oz, so she can show you the way and be like, “Turn here. Here's the shortcut. Watch out for that pothole.” Or just having accountability, and someone to bounce ideas off of. It's just huge. There's so many reasons why support is important.
Jamie: Totally and I think what I would love the limitless belief to be here is that community and support are what creates success, period. Being able to say, the best way for me to grow is to share in community with somebody else. We've mentioned a couple of things here, but the idea being — we're both coaches, so maybe we're a little biased, but have somebody in your corner. Have someone that knows your business and can be able to say, “Try these couple of things, and you get to be the person who makes the decision on what you do.” The idea of exactly what Diana is saying at the beginning: Coaches want to make sure you don't have to hit as many holes as we did.
We want to allow you to skip some really big hurdles that we had to experience. That's what's lovely. Even to — when I talk to clients about creating their audience, “This is kind of like version one of me.” I'm like, “Yeah, makes perfect sense.” You’re version number five of you and you want to help them get to three and four a lot faster. That's great. Because isn't that the goal of humanity? We just want other people to suffer less, and we want to suffer less.
Diana: Rising tide lifts all ships, baby.
Jamie: Yeah, absolutely. Then the other side of us being accountability buddies with each other is that, if you can find somebody, and this is going to be a little love note to Diana, but if you can find somebody who not only celebrates you, reminds you something that something big is worth celebrating, because like sometimes, “Yeah, I got a new client. It was great.” — hold up. Slow down.” Then even to hold you when you're in a really crappy mood, like, “This isn't working, I'm like, done with this.” and then be like, “Alright, how long we letting the pity party stick around? What needs to happen until to get you to the next phase?” You can't put a price on it. You simply can't.
There's something to be said, but the two of us, get to be very vulnerable with each other, which is lovely. That allows us to push each other more, going, “We know that this is something that's core to you.” Taking what happens internally outside of yourself and giving respect giving — what's the word I'm looking for? Trust. Giving trust in somebody else. To be able to be like, “I know you want to be held to your highest. Here's how I'll do it.” That kind of idea.
Diana: Yes and I also think like for the listeners, how many of you are like, “Yeah, I pretty much just have like, friends who are corporate life — we'll call them normies. My partner, they don't really get it.”? Also, it's not fair to unload all this shit on your partner. They don't need to know the pricing and packaging. They don't need to be your business coach. Then, we resent them because something didn't work and their advice was like, whatever. Get yourself support that is outside of your direct personal life also.
Jamie: Totally, and people who have a general understanding of where you're coming from. I think that's a big piece too. How many times I've asked my fiance for like, “What do you think of this post?” He's an artist, as well as a nurse, and he'll be like, “The colors are wrong. Do I change it to do this?” And I'm like, “No.”
Diana: “...not what I asked.” Wrong. Brick wall, no thanks.
Jamie: Oh my gosh. Well, we could continue talking, but I want to make sure that we have more and more of these conversations because I think it's it was really lovely to have you as my first guest. But one last question for you: what does limitless mean to you?
Diana: I love this question. So, full transparency, Jamie and I got off our — for me 7am; that happens every Friday — accountability call just a few hours ago. I think, limitless can — the era of limitless can mean a lot of things each day, right? So today, it means to me, kind of the conversation Jamie and I are having off microphone, that we are able to fully be ourselves, be fully expressed, and that we don't have to hide any part of us. That's something I know you and I are really working through, is showing up really unapologetically.
I think a lot of people might see us or see other people and they're like, “How do you get so confident?”, whatever, “How'd you get to this place?” It's like, “Oh, girl, we're still working through that.” We're still wading through the mud a lot. For me right now, it's really feeling unapologetic, showing up as me, being limitless in that capacity, and knowing that when I show up fully, without any barriers, or walls, or edits, or filters, that's when the limitless potential can like meet us there.
Jamie: Absolutely, I love that. I'm gonna just say, from what she's sharing, is that when we honor our limitlessness there's an inherent radiance, and it's a vibe; it's a frequency. I love that definition of it for sure.
Diana: Radiance is a great word.
Jamie: Radiance is a favorite lately. So, Diana, tell everybody how they can connect with you. I think that they, in general, go ahead and share all of the wonderfulness that you do within your business.
Diana: Thank you. Yeah, come connect with me over on the gram. I fucking love the gram. I'm on there a lot. I really love showing up there I actually speaking of just like limitless and doing what feels good for you. I've had actually a lot of guilt around how much I show up on Instagram. “Maybe I shouldn't be showing up this much. Maybe I'm using it as a tool to procrastinate for other stuff.” Then, really tapping into my intuition and knowing, “No. This is serving people and it serves me and it makes me feel good — not in a fake way; in a really authentic way.” So, truly come and say hi on there. My handle is @dianadaviscreative. I'm the one talking to you. No one else is in there. It's really me. So just come say hi.
But yeah, I have a lot of places to plug in, and many places coming up that are brand new to my business, which I'm really excited to announce. I think you'll just have to stay tuned for that. I have a couple of group programs, so if you are a creative entrepreneur, and you're looking to plug into a space in a community, I can say that the groups that I have are pretty magical.
I would love to just connect and say hi. I promise if you come say hi, I'm not gonna sell you something. I really just want to say hi and connect and I hope that's what we can all kind of take away is just connection is so crucial and important.
Jamie: I love that. Diana is a perfect example of using social media as a core place to build relationships, so definitely check her out. I'll add those links into the show notes for all of you. Diana, thank you so much for being my first interview. It was such a pleasure.
Diana: I'm so honored. Thank you for having me, and you all are just so lucky to be plugged into Jamie's energy. I just have to say that. So, keep tuning in. Keep taking her advice. She is a vessel for you, and I'm so excited to hear just the potential of this podcast going.
Jamie: All right, bye listeners. You'll hear from me soon.