37. Is People Pleasing HURTING you? Set Healthy Boundaries with Boundaries coach Allison KT
Limitless Podcast —Episode 37— Setting Boundaries vs People Pleasing
People-pleasing is a way of life for many. Yet every time you say “yes” to someone or something, you could also be saying “no” to yourself. Today, Jamie Ratermann talks with boundaries coach Allison KT they chat about the importance of defending your own needs. Alison shares tips that can help you set healthy boundaries in all of your relationships.
Episode’s Highlights:
Allison’s journey, how she became a boundaries coach.
Why setting healthy boundaries is essential to living your best life.
People-pleasing often involves denying your own need
How to handle family dynamics that might be toxic.
Tips for you to set health boundaries
About Allison KT
Allison KT is a boundaries coach for people-pleasers. She combines her background in psychology and conflict transformation, with her skills as a certified coach, and certified energy medicine practitioner to help clients heal their relationships with boundaries holistically. She supports people in knowing what to say in challenging convos, seeing themselves as worthy of protecting their boundaries, and doing the energetic work to feel safe in their bodies at the moment. Furthermore, she and her spouse live just north of Denver with their two rescue dogs.
Resources:
Learn more about Allison: poppylead.com
Follow her on Instagram: Instagram.com/_poppylead
The What Type of People-Pleaser Are You quiz! poppylead.com/quiz
Are you looking to build a thriving business built on a strong brand message, money-making offers, and a resilient, growth mindset? Join the Marketing Mastery waitlist: https://www.jamieratermann.com/marketing-mastery
Launch with certainty and excitement with this new free training! This mini-course includes 15 minutes of coaching, my 7-point launch planning guide, and a workbook to start planning your next launch: https://jamieratermann.com/how-to-launch-a-new-offer-social-media
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Transcript
Jamie Ratermann 0:05
Hello lovelies, welcome to episode 37 of the limitless Podcast. Today is a true joy of a of a conversation. I'm over here getting ready. We got our water, we got our tea, Denise teas is telling me that I may all beings be happy. So we're going to talk about happiness as it is around boundaries today. So I'm really excited to introduce you all to Allison. Hold on, hold on. I always call you Alison. Katie.
Unknown Speaker 0:32
Yeah, you can say Alison, Katie, or it is like Rafi yet. Thayer.
Jamie Ratermann 0:37
Oh, yeah, I know that. Which one? Would you like them?
Unknown Speaker 0:40
Katie is fine. All right.
Jamie Ratermann 0:43
Oh, hold on here. Okay, so today, we're gonna give you I'll give you a little bit of distance, or Danny Hold on. Today, we're talking to Alison Katie's. She is extra special to me for the fact that when I decided to make my switch into coaching, she was one of the first people to sign up for the content planning sprints. So I have pretty much seen her if not every Wednesday, at least two Wednesdays out of every month for the last two years. So not only has she been a big support to me, of course, but I have watched her business evolve. And she is a frickin amazing. So one thing to note about Allison is that she is everyone's biggest cheerleader, but also loves to remind us when we're being people pleasers. How many times have we talked about that on this on this podcast. So she is a boundaries coach for people pleasers. She does that by combining psychology and conflict transformation. She has been a guest coach and many of my programs not only because she can be helpful and like, yeah, how to set boundaries, but really like talking about when it happens, how to handle it. So I'm so excited to have her on the podcast today. Alison, thank you so much for joining me. Yeah, I'm
Unknown Speaker 1:55
so excited to be here. And yeah, just to echo, I remember joining my very first content, Sprint, and like just looking at where my business is, since then, like were your businesses since then, it's just been really awesome to sort of watch and now knowing that like 300 sprinters have come through or something like that, like, it's just, it's been incredible. So I'm super excited that we're making the time to have this conversation today.
Jamie Ratermann 2:22
I'm so excited to have you. So tell us a little bit about your background. I mean, I could talk about it for ages, but I know that you've got some of that, like deep like, you know, you've worked through a lot of things yourself. I know that recently in this print, you're talking about how you're really leaning into the healer side of your business, too. So go ahead and tell us just a little bit about what it was to start your own business and kind of your background.
Unknown Speaker 2:43
Yeah, definitely. So I am a very empathic and highly sensitive person. I've always felt emotions in a really big way. And also like made myself responsible for other people's emotions, always worrying, like are my friends having a good time? Do they like me, and they might being funny, am I taking up too much space, I just I had so much of that going on in my head. Growing up very conflict avoidant, just really in that good girl, teacher's pet, good student kind of realm. And I knew that, you know, the corporate world wasn't for me, I definitely was burnt out in that realm. And that was what led me to starting my own business deciding, you know, I want to help other people be more confident, all of that kind of stuff. But I really found when I tried to start my own business that I butted up against that people pleasing a lot. Because when you're going into business for yourself, you need to have your own back in a big way, you need to be very clear on what you're doing, be committed to it, and able to have those boundaries with people, when you know, they're not willing to jump into this, like yes, you got this kind of kind of mindset with you. And so I had to learn a lot about stepping away from my own people, pleasing tendencies, learning to see myself as a very powerful individual and inviting people into that. And so I added this piece of energy medicine to my work, I now use tools like Reiki to help people you know, not only like yes, I've got the psychology background, the conflict transformation background, the kind of boundaries ability to help you know, how to communicate what you want to communicate, but also like I love helping people feel safe in themselves to be like, You know what, I got this I know how to defend myself in this conversation. I know how to stand up for myself. And so yeah, I mean, this business really came out of my own experiences of struggling with people pleasing and, and not setting boundaries. And the more I talked about boundaries, the more people They're like, holy cow. This is huge in my life. And so I feel really grateful to kind of be at this, this position of having this unique skill set to really support people with this.
Jamie Ratermann 5:10
Yeah. Oh my gosh, it's it's so important. I think, when people when we talk about boundaries, someone's like, oh, yeah, it's just boundaries, like boundaries play a role in everything, like everything. And I, what I loved it something that you were sharing is that I think it's very natural for women. I mean, I think men to be natural for women to feel like our, it's a badge of honor to show that we care for others, sometimes more than ourselves. And I've even like thought about like, motherhood for my own self and how I don't want to be a martyr I want to like, like, show how great it is to take care of myself. But I think this comes up a lot with even clients when like, they're trying to, you know, think about their workload and how they take care of their clients versus versus like, how they have outreach and, and then usually the ones that have a lot of difficulty setting a boundary, it's like, I'm like, what kind of role did you play in your friend group, and then she's like, Oh, the mom, the one that takes care of everybody. And it's, and it's this like, idea that like, you are worthy of, of boundaries, you're worthy of like saying no, and, and on all those pieces, and when it comes down to it, and I think there it sounds sexy to be your own boss. But being your own boss means going inside and internal about your patterns and knowing that if you feel burnout, the only person responsible for that as you and understanding that like, it's not just like, stop it like it's like Stop it like be better. Don't hustle. It's like why? Why am I hustling? How can I release this? How can I create this emotional change and I so for so even though like boundaries may sound like a word everyone hears all the time. This show it's hard. It's not simple. It's not simple at all. But what would you say? Like, you know, you I remember you talking about like, like helping people pleasers, all these things in the past, but like, what made you just like really focus in on like, let's talk about boundaries and build, like healing psychology, conflict transport, like what made you decide like, that's going to be my thing? To focus on completely?
Unknown Speaker 7:15
Yeah. So it really, it came out because I started noticing that this doesn't just limit itself to one place. Like if you're people pleasing, you know, at work, you're probably also people pleasing at home. If you're people pleasing with your boss, you probably also people pleasing with your mom, like you're probably shows up in multiple places. And I had actually heard and this goes really well with what you were just saying about, you know, putting everybody first I heard this story of like, I think I read it online of some people that were like this woman who is at a funeral for this woman who had passed away. And there were all of these beautiful eulogies. And it was like, Oh, she was the best mom, she was always there for me. She always did everything, you know, to help out. And then it was like, the church people were like, oh, yeah, she always was helping out and was always there. And the takeaway from the story is that this woman walked away and was like, I know nothing about the woman who died. I know nothing about her passions. All I know, is who she was in relation to these other people. All I know is that she like murdered herself to keep everyone happy. All I know is that she like spent her whole lifetime being who she needed to be to others. And I was just like, Man, how often does that happen? And I see it too, with people. I've worked with a lot of entrepreneurs who come to me and they have an idea, but then they just get in their own way about it. And they're like, oh, but who would listen to me? Oh, but what could I ever do? Like, why would this ever work for me and like the imposter syndrome is so big. And it just bums me out? Because I'm like, No, the world needs people who are doing it differently. The world needs people who were like standing in their own power. And so the more that I saw people who were just like, oh, it's not for me, I'm not that kind of person. I was just like, oh, you can be that kind of person. And it really starts with that just like mindset of being willing to put yourself out there to stand up for yourself. I like to say that like most succinctly, boundaries are one, teaching other people how to treat you. So like, saying, you know, I'm available for this, this is what I'm available for. But then there's also the second piece of teaching yourself, how you deserve to be treated, and like really tuning into like, I know that I don't deserve to be, you know, screamed at or ripped apart for this viewpoint, XYZ. And so that's kind of how I really I break it down. And once I started seeing boundaries in that way of like, yes, it's the outward teaching people how to engage with you but it's also like knowing internally what you deserve. So now I'm just all about like helping people step into that. Because like I said, the world needs healers and people who were just, you know, trying to change it. So
Jamie Ratermann 10:16
totally Yeah. And I think there's what I take away from that. And I think there's this the common metaphor of like, fill your own cup first, and then everyone gets what you'd like what you spill over. And I like this, like pouring from an empty cup type of idea. And that, and I think that metaphor works really well. But it's also going like, you're not allowing your magic, your purpose, your passion to be what drives your your, you're being driven by what how others, what others get from you, and, and that can just be such a depleting feeling. So I think so I love the eulogy idea. I think I've heard it before, but it says, but you're reminding me of it. And it's just this idea of like, what would you want your eulogy to do? Yeah, what would you like it to be? And I know for me that maybe we could just play with it. So that I know for me, I want to, I want to be able to say like, She lived her life loudly and boldly. And like she followed through. And she was an example for others. Like, I think that's what I'd want. And I know what the what comes with that. Yeah, no, this is fun. What would you say your what would you say? Your eulogy to include?
Unknown Speaker 11:25
I love that. Yeah, I do think like, Yeah, I'm totally here for the, like, you know, supporting other people, lifting them up in their dreams. But I love that too. Like, I want people to say and remember, like, you know, she was brave. She was fearless. She dyed her hair hot pink, she wore full sequined dresses. Yeah, she lived her life exactly how she wanted she went after it. She, you know, followed her heart and didn't play small. And like stay in the safe little box. Yeah, I want people to acknowledge that I stepped out of the box.
Jamie Ratermann 12:05
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I love that. I think it's hard to realize this. But sometimes the best way for anyone to learn from you is just like you leading by example. And I think that sometimes people think, Oh, I'll give to people and they'll learn that way. But like leading by example, is such a big deal. So one thing that I I really kind of hold with our relationships specifically is that when I met you, it was quite soon after I lost my dad, and you were vulnerable and very willing for to share with me that you had lost yours as well. And I believe there's a I know this, but I believe there's a reason why you are Poppy lead. And we can maybe dive into that a little bit. But, you know, as we're talking about these things, I just realized, you know, legacy is such a part of the things that I hold dear around losing my dad, like what was what was his legacy for me? And like, what can I take from that and decided, like, I want to, I want to bigger bit like this bold legacy myself. So how do you want? Yeah, how do you feel like, like how you dad's relationship has played a role in you as an entrepreneur and your business?
Unknown Speaker 13:14
Yeah. Ooh, love that question. And like, love the space to just talk about this and share. Because, you know, my dad, we had a very close relationship. When I was growing up, our birthdays were two days apart. Like, we always he was also very empathic, and I think very highly sensitive. And just, you know, he really understood like, the concept of just getting people out sometimes, and the concept of like, I just need to go sit alone in my room, and it doesn't mean I'm mad at you. It just means I need some alone time. Like he really understood and honored that in me. But he also just always, you know, amped up my ability to do what I wanted. You know, he always reminded me how strong I was, how smart I was. And that voice really carried me through and some of those early entrepreneurial days of being like, Can I do this? Will people listen to me, it was like, I had that voice or they're like, you're so smart. Like, you're everyone's favorite person to be around and just like all of this uplifting energy from him. And I think too. I really saw it. I saw how people pleasing and like worrying about others held him back. He was an entrepreneur as well, he had a small cleaning business. And I always saw how difficult it was for him to raise his prices, or to you know, potentially rock the boat in any way. Like he always just kind of had this like, oh, well, that's just how it is kind of mentality. And looking back now I'm just like, oh, like there's so much I civility. And so I kind of see and like you were saying to the legacy piece of like, you know, like he touched my life and impacted me in such a big way. And I'm just like, man, if he had been confident in himself, if he had, like, seen himself as, you know, worthy and smart, and all of these beautiful messages he had given to me, like, what could have been different for him? And so I didn't give that no to I'm just like, you know, I feel His love and the way that he loved me and like, I want to spread that to others. And yeah, the connection with my business is, is when I was growing up, I thought it was just adorable to call him poppy seed. Not Pop's or papa or anything like that. But he was poppy seed. And I, like I said, you know, you're very close. And I found coaching right around the time that he was passing away from cancer in 2016. And I found the coaching program I wanted to do and then learned, like, oh, my gosh, it's way too much money. I can't do the certification right now, I'll have to wait. And like, that same day, I think my mom called and was like, holy cow, your dad apparently had this, like life insurance policy. And I'm sending you a check for like $10,000, which was like, exactly what I needed to pay for this coaching program. And so it was just this beautiful, like, you know, he was sort of there. His like, last little gift to me was this, like, hey, you know what, go do this, like, love that your support for you to go do this. So I like connected my business to him. And, you know, I love leadership and all of that. So I bring it to Poppy lead now, as a little nod to poppy seed. Who's Who's with me in this journey? Yeah, I
Jamie Ratermann 16:49
love that. You're saying your your how you got your coaching certification. Right. related to it? Yeah, I think I think the, there's any kind of love, I think we can show for our loved ones who have passed as being able to look at what we wished they had in their life and live that for ourselves now. And I think that's a big deal around this is that I like everything you were sharing about your dad, like he wanted everything for me. He was like, it was like a badge of honor of like, Look at what he was able to provide. And I was like, oh, yeah, like, but the what I take away is that I like what do I want for myself? And how does that turn into? Like how I lead others, which is what I love so much. So like, Thank you, dads, thank you Yay. So let's dive into the topic at hand specifically, let's kind of go ahead and just talk about boundaries as a whole, especially as the holidays are coming up. I know that families, I have had more than one conversation clients and friends alone talking about like handling boundaries with families around the holidays and what that can be. But I think the best way to just kind of jump into this as is, you know, why do you think it's in general? Just so hard
Unknown Speaker 17:57
to set boundaries? Yeah, definitely. You know, I really, I have a very scientific answer for this, because I think there is, like legit science behind why it is so hard. You know, we were taught to be nice. We were taught to put people first we were taught, you know, sometimes it's selfish to speak up for yourself, you know, we were given kind of these messages fit the box that taught us to people, please. And if you're like me, you know, it taught you to fear conflict, or to fear discomfort. And so there's this term Emoto phobia. That is the fear of negative emotions. And so that's where I kind of see the big struggle with this, because it's like, Oh, I could set a boundary. But they might think, you know, they might respond poorly to that, they might yell at me, they might ask me why they might put me on the spot. And so we're just like, I don't want anything to happen. I don't want anything, I don't know what will happen. So I'm just gonna like not set the boundary. And then I'm just gonna people please let it go. And like, that's kind of the way that's actually like the distinction I draw between like being a nice person and people pleasing, because some people might say, like, oh, yeah, I'm just, you know, a kind person, I always let my friend pick the restaurant. That's fine. And it's like, okay, check in with your brain. Like, are you letting your friend pick the restaurant? Because you're, you know, they enjoy it, you you know want to just let them do it or is it like this inside piece of you? That's like, oh, because I know I'll pick the wrong one and like she'll be mad or like, what if I ruin the night and what if there's nothing she can eat there? And you know, if you get in your head that these fears of like what if, what if, what if that's kind of what keeps us from setting the boundaries and so, like, boundaries particular Feel really difficult because a lot of times we need a boundary in a situation where there has not previously been a boundary. So there's this extra added piece of like, okay, I have to have a conversation now, that will be uncomfortable, but is necessary and like sometimes is that like, oh, but it's gonna be uncomfortable, like really keeps us from doing it. And like, you know, we are breaking patterns, like breaking ways that we have done things. And so it definitely can be really frightening for a lot of people. And so that's I kinda think why why boundaries feel really hard for people is because there's just this fear of like, what if I say the wrong thing? What if they get mad at me? What if it ruins the friendship? What if they think I don't want to, you know, be with them anymore? All of these kinds of things. And that just keeps us in that like, well, I guess they just won't say anything, then. Yeah,
Jamie Ratermann 20:57
yeah. I mean, I think like, like the fear of conflict, and how like people think any kind of conflict is unhealthy. There's a side of that, I think that there's a likability factor, too. I think when I when boundaries come up a lot, they're like, What will they won't like me, or like I want it I want, the more the nicer I can be, the more that they're gonna like me. And I think there's also a control factor, like you can't control how other people react. So this is like where it comes in. And I think the most recent, like boundary conversation specific was, like someone just like setting the terms of the night of what they want to do. And there were like, one of the restaurants aren't good enough. What if, what if they don't have good, like, good appetizers? What my friends think of me and it's like, it's a co created experience what's going on? So that but it was just this, like, they wanted it to be liked and respected for them, because they always make the best choices. And you know, like, there's there's just there's just that that there's a perfectionism that measure, I guess, in that example, but but I think the fear of conflict is such a big piece there. I think that fear of conflict and and really prioritizing what they think likeability is over what would actually nourish them. And so I love this. I think it makes total sense. But it's like the catastrophizing. It's about turning off your brain. It's all of these things. So like, how do you help somebody you know, you know, approach conflict.
Unknown Speaker 22:21
Yeah. Love it. Yeah. And this is so fun because I like I said, I was deeply conflict avoidant, growing up growing up, like very much was like, No, thank you. dusted under the rug, we just are very peaceful. But for some reason, I decided to study conflict, transformation of all things, in undergrad. And it really did teach me how necessary conflict is. But like, there is a distinction between conflict and combat. Like, we don't have to go into combat, like, fight on all of that. But I think conflict like it is such a necessary healthy thing to stand up for yourself. And I think I stepped away from what your initial question was, could
Jamie Ratermann 23:09
you could you How do you help someone approach conflict? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 23:12
so I think approaching the conflict, like one realize that this is actually a great piece of information for you. Because if something if somebody says something and and upsets you, and there's going to be conflict, too, they're like, Okay, you're aware, like, oh, maybe they butted up against a core value of yours, maybe, you know, you're not feeling seen or heard in the situation. And so you need to speak up, maybe you see somebody, you know, get being attacked on the street and you want to like step in, like all of that starts with this, like underlying sense of worthiness, and this underlying sense of like, okay, I see something is not right. I am going to I'm going to say something about it, I'm going to step up and if you have that like confidence and inherent just like okay, I deserve to do this I deserve to speak my truth I deserve to share what needs to be shared then like the it's much easier to step into that place and like going into it with that power of like okay, I'm conflict situation, always trying to come in as your Higher Self rather than like your ego self is also a place I would start with like a great example of this. I had a family member who sent me a text message one time that was like, pretty passive aggressive, and I sort of took a beat before responding to the situation because I was like, okay, one I know I don't deserve to be spoken to you this way to this like makes me want to pull away even further and is not beneficial. All to supporting a relationship. And so I chose to respond to that situation from like, Okay, I'm going to be in my higher self, I'm going to like, step back and observe. Because if my ego self went in, I'd be like, well, that's like, I would just fight and it would be combative. And like, there's no, there's not really a great, I don't see a lot of great outcomes coming from me just going in in that kind of headspace. But coming into it from my higher self, I was like, Okay, I see that something is amiss in the situation. I'm noticing Something's off. And I just like spoke very calmly in that situation, and was like, Hey, I noticed that I seem to upset you have upset you somehow. I feel like I don't understand what happened. Like, could we talk about this, and it was a much better outcome in the conversation because I kind of went into it with like, Okay, I'm aware that I don't deserve to be treated this way. Or, like, I'm aware that something wrong is happening. I feel confident and worthy of stepping in. And then I'm going to do it from this higher self place that can actually bring about positive change in the situation rather than this, like, you know, nitpicky ego based kind of reaction.
Jamie Ratermann 26:21
Totally like the like, like, if we're gonna go into conflict, how can we do it in a, like, a, like a slow way, we don't have to, like, get jumped to conclusions, like, get rid of as much pettiness as we can. I feel like ego always comes with like, fear. And like, like, like, like, you're less than, but being able to say, like, whatever happens, I'm going to at least take a beat. And even if it's a deep breath, and be able to say like, yeah, I don't agree with that. And yeah, I agree. I think that the the hardest conversations, the conflict conversations, I ended up being like, really, like, just, we're gonna take our time, we're not gonna, we're gonna, like, if something feels awkward, we're gonna wait till they fit it. Like there's like the just knowing that that's the difference between that and like, in the past, where I would just like, get ready to, you know, yell and get into,
Unknown Speaker 27:13
for sure. Yeah. And I always like to remind people to that, like, if you feel yourself in that place, like, there's nothing wrong with having that like, immediate reaction of like, like, oh, my gosh, and like, I totally like I have, I just I go to people, other people to, like, talk through that or a journal about it. It's not helpful necessarily to, like, dump those offenses, like on the person who is committing those offenses, because like, that's probably not going to help, but I can totally I'm 100% proponent of like, texting your girl gang, and being like, can you believe and just like having the processing, they're all about it. And then just noticing, like, if you feel yourself starting to get that way in the conversation of like, Ooh, I'm about to start being petty. And like, I'm getting really angry here. That's where you can always take that beat. And like, say, you know, could we come back to this conversation? Like, I don't feel like I'm in the right headspace to, like, come up with a creative solution to this. Could we talk about it tomorrow? And like, excuse yourself, you don't have to keep going down the like, rabbit hole and like, be like, No, we need to come to an answer now. Because like, I don't know if either of you were like, in the headspace to like, come up with a loving solution at that point. So another way is, feel free to excuse yourself, if you need to
Jamie Ratermann 28:36
another boundary within when you're setting a boundary going like yeah, it's going and if it's not going anywhere, you don't have to just sit in that you don't have to sit until it's finished, which I think can be hard sometimes. Because like, it's a like setting that I even had a previous episode, I called it the entering the villain era for a lot of our people pleasers just like putting on a bit of an alter ego of like, I'm going to get that respect, even if it's going to cause people to see me as the villain will get on board or they won't, because I deserve these things. So I think there's such a side of that. But let's talk about different types of boundaries. Because I know, I know what I think they are because I feel like I run into them a couple of times, what how many types of boundaries? Do you think there are like kind of like, yeah, how can people start to think about these,
Unknown Speaker 29:17
for sure, I'm a big fan of mental models, and like, just like ways to kind of conceptualize things. And so I honestly just break it down to two types. I break it down to outer boundaries, which are like boundaries with people who are outside of you, your friends, your family, your clients, your colleagues, community groups, all of those kinds of people. And you might have different boundaries, you know, within that of like time boundaries or schedule boundaries, you know, conversation boundaries, what you're available for, but I see that kind of is like, okay, you've got your your outer realms, and then I see your inner boundaries as a second set of boundaries. And so These are boundaries with like your own inner critic like what will you allow yourself to say to yourself? How like, what do you let your negative or your self talk sound like boundaries with your inner child, and like your desire to protect your inner child boundaries with your own energetic needs. So I really kind of see it as just like breaking into those two of like, okay, I've got my outer boundaries. And that's where I see it's like teaching other people how to treat me. And then I have my inner boundaries of like teaching myself how I deserve to be treated. And so I break it into those two distinctions, but kind of like, within the outer boundaries piece, I do really talk about, like relationship boundaries, I think of this a lot in terms of like myself as a coach, who is friends, like with some of my clients, or like having, like, I'm friends with some of my coaches. And so like, relationship boundaries, I think of there's like, who are we to each other in that moment, and like honoring your boundaries of like, okay, we're not going to use like a paid coaching conversation to like, catch up on what's going on in each other's lives. Right. Like, we're also not going to use like going out for dinner as like a coaching session. And so like having those kinds of boundaries. And then like, time boundaries are a big one to have, like, who you know, for your child, you might be available 24/7 365. But for your clients, you might be available, you know, 10 to four, Monday through Thursday, like how do we of course, yeah, yeah. And so knowing you know, those kinds of like setting those kinds of boundaries, but I do really break it down into like, inner and outer at the most, like basic level. And then from there, like, there's a couple others that you kind of feel out in terms of the relationship and like when you're available and what you're available for, and that kind of stuff.
Jamie Ratermann 32:00
Totally. So yeah, I you and I are very similar. I have I usually say there's three, but it's but it's within your subtopics of what you're saying relationship boundaries, which can be everything from like, what you allow people to know about you to how available you are to how much time you're allowed to give to them. But then there's like the time and energy boundaries. And sometimes that can be for yourself, because I know, there are people that will realize that they don't set the boundary, or they will give their time away. Like, like, have some kind of preset to that. But also like the energy piece is such a thing. Like if you in general walk into a room and the people in that room just suck your energy, that's the boundary you might need to set and I love that. But the interpersonal ones are always the hardest. So that was like, when I look at it, those are the three places that I really see it. So let's talk about relationship boundaries, because I think these are gonna be the biggest one. So we're coming up on the holidays. And I know that there's always a running meme for entrepreneurs, when they walk into Thanksgiving dinner with their extended family and they get asked this question, how is your little business doing? So how would you like you know, this for somebody who let's say they're brand new entrepreneur, their new ish entrepreneur, and they don't know really how to handle that kind of setting? How would you help them set a relationship boundary around that topic with, let's say, their uncle who's like, looking their nose down at them?
Unknown Speaker 33:25
Yeah, totally. So in this situation, like, I always think it's important to, you know, stand in that power within you. Because if you feel uncertainty or like shakiness within yourself, sometimes people who are like trying to pick apart your boundary will like latch on to that and be like, well, it doesn't even sound like you really believe in it. And it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Jamie Ratermann 33:55
She has the power of clarity is a big deal for but yeah,
Unknown Speaker 33:59
so if you're going in with that confidence of like, No, this is what I'm doing. Like, I'm very committed to this. You know, you can just acknowledge, like, it feels important to acknowledge, like, yeah, it's not really a little business anymore. This is my full time job. It's what I'm committed to. I'm working with clients. I'm creating this great future for myself, and I'm really having a blast. Thanks for asking. And just kind of, you know, starting out Oh, I'm so glad you're interested. Let me tell you all about the like, successes I'm achieving. And like, because there could be that desire to be like, it's not little I made six figures last year and like to jump in and like rationalize and explain. But just kind of, you know, being in that power of like, I'm not going to try to convince you Uncle Joe about why this is a beneficial thing. Especially if you feel like oh my gosh, she's just trying to you know, catch me saying something and like twist my words around. So you know, I kind of like in those situations, because I think sometimes there's a piece to have, like, maybe he's just asking because he doesn't he wants to feel connected to you, but doesn't know how to ask the questions and like, so just honoring and acknowledging like, hey, you know, I think it's going great. Like, this is my business. How's your job, uncle, person and uncle, person, Uncle person?
Jamie Ratermann 35:23
I think there's, in particular, like, what you're saying is, I usually like try to, you know, let clients know, like, check in if you're, if you're any way coming into that conversation with proving energy. Because if you're trying to prove, if you're trying to prove the ability, that your business is great, like, it's going to be felt, instead of, instead of like, usually, if I'm walking into like, a bigger family scenario, but what would they What would my these people be most interested in? And I'll just be clear, before I walk in the door, you know, just knowing what to expect can be a part of that. But also, you know, there are certain relatives that I know not to, not to really give too much to, and there are certain ones that are I know, are particularly interested. And I And that's always what's fun is like allowing someone to surprise you sometimes. But it's funny, like, even in particular with this podcast, I had an uncle of mine who was like, I listen to your podcast, and I would have never realized and I'm like, and I my my initial reaction was like, What do you think? Like, it's really cool. And I was like, being able to just know that, like, you know, how, how confident you feel about the topic can be helpful. But to not walk into it always with this, like, I gotta prove myself, they must think there's something wrong with this or whatever it might be. Because there's a, there's definitely a factor in there about that. For sure. Totally. Yeah, so aside from business, because I think it's important. What about relationships? Whenever you're taught whenever, I think the as just because the holidays are coming up, I think it's fun to, to dabble in this in two ways. What do you think is a good response for somebody that's like, so when are you getting married? Or have you been How's dating? Or when our kids come a guy? Like, how would you handle like setting a bit of a boundary in that scenario?
Unknown Speaker 37:17
Definitely, like, oh, my gosh, this is such a great topic. Because yeah, a lot of these questions come up around this time. And it's like, we're seeing people we don't often see. And they're checking in about these things and asking these questions. And like, I think knowing, like, knowing what you feel comfortable sharing is a good place, like to start. Because, you know, if you want to go in, and you're like, I don't really want to talk about my dating life at all, like, I'm just gonna shut the conversation down from the get go, like, okay, awesome, you know, have those plans to go in. And if that's your case, maybe saying, like, you know, I don't really feel comfortable talking about this. At the get together right now, like, I'm just, you know, in the searches in the season of seeing what happens, and I'll let you know, you know, I'm excited to maybe bring somebody home next year. But right now, you know, I'm just going along and seeing what happens. And that's kind of where it's at, like, you could just shut it down, kind of in that way. Tell them you know, I don't really want to talk about it. I'll let you know if something changes. But if you're going into the situation you're in, and you're like, Yeah, I'll tell him a little bit. You can maybe talk about like, oh, yeah, you know, I've met some people. This is what's happening. I will say, though, that if you're like, is particularly with kids, this is something that I was having a conversation with a client around, because she kept getting this question, and she knew that this is going to come up at get togethers and she has been struggling with fertility. And she was like, okay, they're gonna ask about kids. We're trying, we're trying to have kids and it's like, not working. And this is making it worse. And so we kind of talked about, like, how to prepare for that. And so when she went in, you know, she was having this conversation with like, an aunt who is like, always asking, like, oh, yeah, you know, because I think she had a cousin who was having kids or something. And her aunt was like, oh, I want to have Korean kids together and like, putting all this pressure on it. And so she basically said, like, you know, I noticed that this is something you bring up a lot, and that, you know, you desire this in my life, I desire to, I really do. And I feel overwhelmed when it comes up in conversation. I feel really anxious. I, you know, maybe acknowledge she could. We talked about whether or not she was going to acknowledge the fertility piece, she decided she would, and she just sort of said like, you know, we're having some struggles with this and it really isn't helpful to keep having conversations about it. I really desire to remove the stress and pressure from the situation and will tell you, if anything changes and like just really shut it down because she was like, I don't want to have these conversations or like, I've also worked with I had a client last year around this time actually, who, like announced her family that she was expecting. And then at Thanksgiving, she was just like, inundated with like, here's what you need to do. Let me touch your stomach, oh, should you be eating that all this stuff. And she was like, she was like I can, she's like, I don't want to go to Christmas. Like, I have to see all these people again in a month. And it's only going to be worse, because I'll be like, showing more and this whole thing. And so, you know, we really talked about having statements ready. So she could say like, Thank you for your input, you know, we're excited to research all of this and make our own decisions as it gets closer to the time that maybe seven. And like, you know, she just really was like, Thanks for your input, you know, we're researching a bunch of stuff. And setting clear boundaries of like, Hey, you wouldn't just walk up and like touch my body. If I wasn't pregnant, that does not change, just know that I'm pregnant, like, please don't just walk up and touch me. And so she had like, some statements ready to go. And then also, like, I encourage people to have a few levels of statements, you could just, you know, start with the very basic, like, I don't really want to talk about this, like, you know, just very basic and if they keep pushing, yeah, if they keep pushing, you know, you'd be like, this conversation really makes me uncomfortable. I, like I said, don't want to talk about it, can we talk about something else. And if they keep pushing after that, then you know, you could say like, I've acknowledged that this makes me super uncomfortable. And if we don't start talking about something else, I'm going to have to leave, and like warning them, like, Hey, this is serious, I will leave. And if they still don't get the hint, keep bringing it up, like you are allowed to excuse yourself, even if it's a family get together, and everybody's gonna, you know, whisper about you like you're allowed to do what you need to do to feel safe in that situation. And so, you know, coming to you and saying, like, I told you that I'm not available for this conversation. You keep bringing it up. I don't feel comfortable in this. And I'm going to, you know, go outside for a while. And it's just like, you're allowed to do that. And
Jamie Ratermann 42:21
it's setting the boundary and resetting it for sure. Yeah. Do you do you need to leave right up to 30? No, I'm good. So I'm so sorry. They bring in so let me go. Let me go grab it really quick. And I'll be right back. Oh, sorry. No worries.
Unknown Speaker 43:28
Okay. I didn't hear anything at all. So good. No, that was like, I
Jamie Ratermann 43:35
was like, oh, no, okay. No,
Unknown Speaker 43:38
I didn't hear anything.
Jamie Ratermann 43:40
So to start coming back in, take a breath. So two of the things that I love about what you're saying is that one is that boundaries. I think the biggest myth with boundaries is that you think you said it once and then you don't have to worry about it ever again. And that's like, the number one thing I'm like, a boundary is like a repeated thing. Like if, like, you're gonna get stronger and how well you hold them. But I think that's like one of the bigger myths about how to hold that boundary. So what what you were saying is that you don't only say a once you have to say it a few times.
Unknown Speaker 44:13
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think from there too, it's like, you know, just remembering like, you deserve to set it and yeah, if they come back at you and are like, ah, but why then add it up? Like, you can just continue to stand in that power. And yeah, like, over time, you're, you're teaching people like, how to treat you how to respond to you in this different way. And to acknowledge your your humaneness and the fact that you deserve to like feel safe in situations. So yeah, sometimes it does require kind of that re committing restating re standing up for it. And I think like I also like to remind people too, that you can do that at any time. Like, if you You know, set the boundary and like, let it slip, you can reset it. Like you can reset it any time, even if you know you said it and you're like, you forgot about it for three months, like you're allowed to just be like, You know what? I've actually been doing some thinking, and I really think that it would feel better for me in this conversation, if we just didn't talk about XYZ or if we, you know, whatever, like, you can always come back to it and set it
Jamie Ratermann 45:27
again. Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other part of the boundary conversation is that the people who you are setting boundaries with, they're not always evil. Like, especially with like, the baby situation, that and even the dating side of things is that they like I loved like how you were, the guidance you gave was giving some empathy, like, you know that it's coming from a good place, and you acknowledge that and instead of just going like, stop asking me about it, like getting, like angry, like, it's more like, how can you like, see where they're coming from? But still, it's not good. So like, I think that, especially with, like, the family type of things, whenever, like, for instance, whenever I got engaged, it didn't take more than 12 hours, that for people to like, when's the wedding? When's the wedding. And I am currently enjoying a two year engagement. I think I like the word fiance more than I like wife at the moment. And being able to like, and I didn't realize when I did develop a statement going like, I we are enjoying being engaged. We're enjoying every second of it. And then I could like put when's the wedding? And like, you'll know when we do, I just want to say with like a nice like, competent smile. They're like,
Unknown Speaker 46:37
okay, yeah. Yeah. And then they're like, Okay, now we just want to ask her about it. Well, let her come to us.
Jamie Ratermann 46:45
Right. So the core thing is they want to be excited for you. But it doesn't mean that even if someone has the intention, that it's a good thing that it doesn't mean that you can't set that boundary. So I think that's a such a big part of it. Aside from relatives, of course, we are certainly in like such a big era of availability, when it comes to clients. And I think, especially for the two of us as entrepreneurs, especially people who have worked with clients directly, like, knowing that not only do I have clients that can email me, I have some that get to be on Voxer, Facebook groups, Instagram, all of these things, is that if if somebody wanted to, they could be asking a lot of you at all times, so the so the idea behind like, you know, being a people pleaser is like, Oh, I always want to help people. How would you tell somebody, or help somebody that tends to answer clients as they receive messages, or in general just realize they're spending a ton of time responding to email and texts and all the things instead of being able to do their own work?
Unknown Speaker 47:48
Totally. Yeah. So this, to me always kind of comes back to that mindset piece of choosing to respond to your life, rather than like reacting to what it throws at you. And just acknowledging like, the fact that you are worthy of doing things in the order, you want to do them, you're worthy of responding to things in the order, you know, that you want to respond to them. You don't have to have this like, constantly on and available and like, you know, always being there at the drop of a hat. like sure, you know, stay within the realms of your contract, if you say you'll respond in 24 hours or whatever, but like also, just like sometimes I, I put that in my contract early on that like, I will respond to messages within 24 hours. And like, sometimes I do respond right away. But I at first like told myself, like no, okay, you have 24 hours to respond, sit with it, sit with it for a second stay with it, see what comes up. And in that I actually found like, oh, you know, I am able to make, like, have a better response when I like am sitting down in a space to be like, Okay, I'm gonna get on Voxer doubt and like, respond to things or, you know, I'll respond to this email that this would this question this person asked, after I've had some time to sit with it. And like, it just I like to tell myself and remind myself, like, you deserve to take that space. And like, you know, do things in the order that feels right to you. So it's like, if I was planning to write content for you know, two hours 10 to 12. But at 1005 I get a Voxer message from somebody, like, cool. I can look at it after 12 Because I am committed to like doing what I'm doing for the next few hours. And so there's just this piece of like, realizing that you can set that boundary and like you can hold that boundary and if you're getting in your head with this thought of like Like, Oh, but like what if, you know, they get mad because I'm not there right away and all of that, like, just acknowledge that that is rooted in people pleasing. And like the fact that you, the only person that you need to be concerned about pleasing is yourself. And like, you get to do so if it feels like you know what, because I did this sometimes to where I like, I see a message, and then I forget about it. And I'm like, Oh, I'll go back and respond to it later. And so sometimes it does feel better for me in the moment to just like, respond right away. But I like to check in with myself, like, Am I doing this? Like, am I am I choosing consciously to do this? Or am I like, kind of being guided to do this? Because like, oh, gosh, I'm scared that they're not going to, you know, think that I'm an attentive coach, or, or all this stuff. And sometimes, too, I find it. I always like as a client, like respect the time of a coach who like puts those boundaries around our relationship. I'm just like, oh, yeah, you know, I know that she's committed to doing what she needs to do for her day. And she's not getting sidetracked by notifications all day, and like, getting pulled into situations like, so I always find that like, oh, yeah, I really, I see that that person is committed to protecting their schedule. And it can be really powerful.
Jamie Ratermann 51:20
The role model again, yeah, you know, like, like, show, show your clients the way you hope they get to live their lives, which is what I love. And I think that's fantastic. And I even have to, for me, like I had to do a physical boundary where I actually have a scheduled summary of when I see the messages because I block off like, I will answer at 10, and three, if not sooner each and like all day, but I make sure my notifications don't get in the way of that because I'm the same way. If I, if I click into it, I don't respond that I might forget. So I'm definitely in that similar realm. But, you know, it's really important to note that boundaries are like that pathway to focus, like the like being always available. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes can kind of be a breeding ground for people that that really respect your energy and time. So like, you are setting that tone. And I think when it comes to this, like era of availability, like it's definitely harder than it was in the past, like, you know, in the past, it was like letters and faxes, and like phone calls. Not all of these modes that we have now. But so there's there's some difficulty, but helping yourself have some of those hard lines can be important. So basics is definitely as bad is definitely in the contract. I've even had a client before we're like, can you get back to me right away? And I'm like, What is my boundary? And then they'll Yeah, they'll repeat it back to me. And like just just a reminder. And also like, I also want you to have that like so there's, there's such a way in which when it comes to this is that the by setting the tone, you're going to get the ideal clients that don't try to push that boundary. Totally amazing is that I have so many more questions, which means there must be a future episode. Like I feel like there's there's some things in here. But I want to respect your time boundaries here. One more question here. So my podcast is called limitless. In general, what would you say your definition is of limitless?
Unknown Speaker 53:19
Limitless? Yeah, I really see it as just like, the ability to do anything, like there is no limit to what I'm capable of. There is no limit to what I'm worthy of. And so I sort of see it as just this, like, all encompassing, like I can get as big as I want to get, I can be as bold as I want to get I can, you know, share as loudly as I'd like, because I like the only limits that exist are like ones that I put around myself or that other people you know, put on me. But embracing kind of a limitless approach to life is like I'm capable of anything I desire. There are truly no limits. Yeah,
Jamie Ratermann 54:13
absolutely. Absolutely amazing. And how can listeners stay in touch with you?
Unknown Speaker 54:19
Yeah, so you can check out my website Poppy li.com. And on there I have a super fun quiz about which type of people pleaser Are you? And there is a recovering people pleaser as one of the types so you can figure out if you are officially a recovering people pleaser if you're striving for that. I also honor Yes, I also hang out on Instagram and LinkedIn. I really love LinkedIn these days. I see it as a very well boundaried social media because I feel like LinkedIn you just you know what you're there for. You know what your
Jamie Ratermann 54:53
LinkedIn Queens love. That's such a good place. Yeah, so
Unknown Speaker 54:57
I spend a lot of time there and I'm always Stan to chat with people about boundaries, you know, brainstorm how to say that difficult thing you're trying to say, helping you feel into the confidence of, you know, delivering that boundary, practicing boundaries. I'm here for all of it. So come find me.
Jamie Ratermann 55:16
Amazing. Thank you so much, Alison, we laid out all of lovelies, to all of you, we have only scratched the surface on boundaries because it definitely takes some really, really hard work sometimes with your inner child and also just understanding how it plays a role in your life. So Allison is your girl so we'll make sure to include that quiz. Her website is new ish. I guess it's maybe been over, but it looks good, but it's absolutely beautiful. So go check it out. Thank you so much for joining us today. Alison. It was such a pleasure.
Unknown Speaker 55:45
Hey, thanks for having me. Amazing.